[19:55] <@AME_BGPHughes> ===========Question===========
[19:55] <@AME_BGPHughes> Q. Are you satisfied with the results?[19:55] <+AME_Tybae> Of what you have put out? (right Ben)
[19:56] <+Hugie> Eh...sorta.
[19:56] <@AME_BGPHughes> (yep)
[19:56] <+Wyrin> yes in terms of the feedback.... but I replayed DA the other day to then test out my current work on chapter 2 and there were lots of things I would like to redo. But it's hard to motivate yourself to redo old work, rather than start on new
[19:56] <+AME_Tybae> @Hugie - We all know that you're never satisfied.
[19:56] <+Hugie> I know I can do better. Chapter Two is going to be much better than chapter 1
[19:56:55] <@AME_Andarian> Wyrin: Yes, you'll probably always feel that way.
[19:56:56] <+GrinningFool> Hmm. That's a tough one. There's always room to make things better - so while I 'm happy that people are using what I make; I'm also painfully aware of the shortcomings in it. So in balance, I'd have to say "yes" in terms of feedback; and "no" in terms of the actual things I make -- perhaps that's another motivator for continuing to make more stuff
[19:57:35] <@AME_BGPHughes> Who feels a bit embarassed when they go back to old work?
[19:57:39] * AME_BGPHughes puts his hand up
[19:57:44] * +GrinningFool raises his hand like 19 times
[19:57:46] <+Hugie> YES
[19:57:46] * +hellfire|RWS raises hand
[19:57:47] <+Nyt> I am never satisfied, I always find a better way to do thing later and says to myself why didn't I think of that earlier
[19:57:53] * @AME_Andarian waves frantically
[19:58:03] <+Hugie> I never ever want to look at Tale of a Mage ever again
[19:58:04] <@AME_BGPHughes> I can't believe how crap some of my oldest stuff is
[19:58:12] * AME_BGPHughes makes a note to remove that from the log
[19:58:07] * +AME_Estelindis puts both her hands up
[19:58:17] * +GrinningFool is afraid to try to add new features to Creature Wizard....
[19:58:46] * +hellfire|RWS thinks Deep Halls shoudl be remade from scratch.. deep sewers too
[19:58:49] <@AME_Qk> i do not feel embarrased, i keep beeing the same idiot i think

[19:58:53] <+AME_Tybae> ToM series was one of my favorites. It got me addicted to Sorcerers, even though it was really meant for Wizards.
[19:59:14] <+Wyrin> isn;t it truw that often you'll look back at something you did a while ago and see a really clever trick you used - and then wonder if you'd still be able to come up with something that inventive/creative now?
[19:59:42] <+GrinningFool> hah - yes. There are rare gems when I look back at earlier work and am like, "Damn - did /I/ think of that?"
[19:59:52] <+GrinningFool> Sadly, they are few and far between
[19:59:53] <@AME_BGPHughes> That also happens, it's true
[19:59:56] <+Wyrin>

[20:00:08] <@AME_BGPHughes> There also times when I look at old scripts, I think: did I write that?!
[20:00:10] <@AME_Andarian> Wyrin: usually, no. For me, the tricks become part of me. It's more like I say "Oh, that's where I first figured out how to do that!"
[20:00:11] <+Hugie> I know the feeling. :/ I've avoided installing NWN1 on my new machine just so I don't have an excuse to go back and redo the entire thing

[20:00:30] <@AME_Qk> that reminds me someone...
[20:00:51] <@AME_BGPHughes> SO we've established everyone is embarassed by their old stuff
[20:01:05] <@AME_BGPHughes> that's reassuring!
[20:01:07] <@AME_Andarian> Except, not always...
[20:01:14] <+Wyrin> AME_Andarian: I try to, but still find I suprise myself when i look back at bits i'd forgotten
[20:01:17] <+Sunjammer> I'm not
[20:01:28] <@AME_Andarian> Sometimes, you can be real proud of it too
[20:01:39] <+Hugie> I suppose that's true
[20:01:41] <@AME_Qk> yeap
[20:01:41] <@AME_BGPHughes> OK - with some caveats then!
[20:01:45] <+GrinningFool> Yes
[20:01:45] <+AME_sirchet> hey! I'm still proud of my first area I created
[20:01:55] <+Hugie> and Sunjammer, when you're the creator of Sunjammer's Tilemagic, it's IMPOSSIBLE to not be proud of it

[20:02:12] <+Sunjammer>

[20:02:26] <+AME_Estelindis> Yes, indeed!
[20:02:33] <@AME_BGPHughes> ==========Question=============
[20:02:43] <@AME_BGPHughes> Q. For Wyrin & Hugie: (Ben pastes some jibberish from the IRC logs of all channels)[20:02:52] <@AME_Qk> ouch
[20:02:54] <@AME_BGPHughes> Sorry - weird paste bug there
[20:03:09] <@AME_BGPHughes> have fun reading that back - while I find the right one!
[20:03:15] <+Hugie> whoa, what?
[20:03:16] <+Hugie> hahaha
[20:03:21] <+AME_Tybae> lol
[20:03:25] <+hellfire|RWS>

[20:03:31] <@AME_BGPHughes> I'm gonna try again...
[20:03:39] <+AME_Tybae> Too much of the Ouzo there Ben?
[20:03:44] <@AME_Andarian> That reminds me of a chat last year when I pasted a page of dialogue from a conversation I was editing accidentally...
[20:03:46] <+Wyrin> ?
[20:03:46] <@AME_BGPHughes> Q. How do you design your plots for a CRPG? Do you have a specific approach, do it by instinct or trial and error, linear vs. open-ended, etc.??[20:04:15] <+Hugie> Go ahead, Wyrin

[20:04:25] <+Wyrin> oh thnks

[20:05:09] <+AME_Tybae> I'm still aspiring, but I'm going Linear for my first one, just to get used to things, then do the full world scope of things in a later mod.
[20:05:55] <+AME_Tybae> For an orignial story. I was thinking of doing my first mod as a PnP conversion so I can focus more on creating the mod than the story. Baby steps, baby steps.
[20:05:59] <+AME_sirchet> Doesn't a story driven adventure need to be a little linear?
[20:06:13] <@AME_BGPHughes> oooh - big question
[20:06:22] <+Wyrin> I have a big overarching plot sketched out, with set pieces planned in far detail. But the filler isn't detailed much at all. I take that as it come - see what ideas i get doing an area, use old ideas I had from being a DM. I think with DA in particular, there's some degree of the illusion of open-endedness, which is often all you can hope for in a CRPG.
[20:06:37] * +AME_Estelindis agrees
[20:06:49] <@AME_Andarian> Sirchet: I think so, yes
[20:07:15] <+Wyrin> Linear can be really good. I've been turned off things that have too many plots going on as they can feel messy
[20:07:32] <+Wyrin> depends how its done of course
[20:07:49] <+Hugie> In NWN1, I tended to build mods where each mod was devoted to a central design decision--for The Island, for example, I was going simply for atmosphere/visuals/sound, whereas for something like Art of Death I was just going for a more complex city-based plot. For Perchance to Dream, it was all about action--very linear. Moonshadows was structured more around exploration, so I suppose you could say it's more "open-ended" than my past projects. M
[20:07:51] <+Hugie> progression
[20:08:05] <@AME_Andarian> Wyrin: that's how I plot as well (plan the overall plot, and fill in the details as I build).
[20:08:13] <@AME_BGPHughes> so do I
[20:08:18] <+AME_sirchet> I think Wyrn has done a fine job of giving the player the illusion of open endedness when in fact we follow a specific plot.
[20:08:30] <+AME_Tybae> A little linear, yes, but I love side quests
[20:09:01] <@AME_Andarian> You can have a linear plot with side-quests, though
[20:09:09] <+Hugie> Definitely
[20:09:18] <+Wyrin> thanks sirchet. I think it's open-endedness in defining the PC, rather than in the plot, in some ways
[20:09:29] <+Hugie> but for linear stories, I've found that sidequests need to somehow tie in to the central plot for things to feel cohesive
[20:09:35] <+AME_sirchet> hmmn...
[20:09:45] <@AME_Andarian> Hugie: I agree
[20:09:56] <+Hugie> otherwise it just feels like you're taking a random detour

[20:09:59] <+AME_Tybae> Yes, the do this for me before I help you thing
[20:10:01] <+AME_Tybae> I'm a fan
[20:10:31] <@AME_Andarian> Wyrin: Yes, I do have to say that you did that brilliantly.
[20:10:34] <+AME_Tybae> @Hugie. That's kind of what I meant in my scatter brain sort of way.
[20:10:50] <+Wyrin> AME_Andarian: thanks

[20:11:08] <@AME_BGPHughes> OK - moving on...
[20:11:14] <+AME_sirchet> i personally don't mind be guided when it's done the way a skilled dm would, were I don't really know I'm being guided
[20:11:12] <@AME_BGPHughes> ===========Question============
[20:11:29] <@AME_BGPHughes> Q. This one is for AME:[20:11:34] * AME_BGPHughes prepares to paste again[20:11:41] <@AME_Andarian> Oh-oh
[20:11:57] <@AME_BGPHughes> Q. The current categories are unbalanced: there is a entire category for Sound/Music and another for Tilesets but then everything else (animation, creatures, placeables, items, effects, plugins, guis, scripts, etc) have to battle it out in a remaining (and very crowded) Custom Content category. Are there any plans to address this imbalance?[20:12:33] <@AME_BGPHughes> One clarification on above - plugins and other tools actually fall under Community Contribution
[20:12:34] <@AME_Andarian> None that I can remember having discussed, but it's a good question
[20:12:42] <@AME_BGPHughes> whilst content falls in Custom Content
[20:12:42] <+Wayne> hope I didn't miss too much
[20:12:49] <+AME_Estelindis> Personally, I would love to see the CC category broken up more.
[20:13:02] <@AME_Andarian> The real dilemma is category proliferation
[20:13:02] <+AME_Tybae> I would hope so, but at the same time, it's hard to have categories for every type of custom content. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, but the line does need to be extended.
[20:13:28] <@AME_BGPHughes> Funny thing is, it sounds like a huge category, but when we got down to it, it wasn't so large.
[20:13:28] <+AME_Estelindis> The fact of the matter is that it is rather difficult to balance off scripts, inventory items, animations, placeables, etc, against each other
[20:13:35] <@AME_BGPHughes> At least the Custom Content one wasn't
[20:13:38] <+Wyrin> Hugie: am i the only one with the toolset open whilst this is going on?

[20:13:42] <@AME_BGPHughes> Community Contribution is wider
[20:13:50] <+AME_Tybae> lol. Probably.
[20:13:52] <@AME_Andarian> It's hard to manage the number of categories we have, so my personal view is that we shouldn't split or add any unless we also eliminate others.
[20:14:02] <+Wayne> hmm, i can open it if you would feel better then
[20:14:04] <+Hugie> @Wyrin: Hah!

You are not

[20:14:11] <+AME_Estelindis> What I would say is this, however:
[20:14:29] <+AME_Estelindis> Even though it is difficult to judge items that are widely different from each other, quality is a constant.
[20:14:52] <+AME_Estelindis> One might be judging placeables against PC heads against AI... But one can still tell whether something is well-made or not.
[20:15:08] <+AME_Tybae> I do think we need a couple of more categories to break up the Comm Con category. That's probably the place where a lot of the work that deserves to be in the finals will get the short end of the stick.
[20:15:29] <@AME_Qk> yeap, most of all in nwn2
[20:15:31] <@AME_BGPHughes> It's always the most over-subscribed, that's true
[20:15:34] <+Sunjammer> So why the special treatment for music (for example)?
[20:15:47] <@AME_BGPHughes> It's music and sound - so it includes mods
[20:15:50] <@AME_Andarian> I tend to agree with Estelindis on this. Comparing different content hasn't usually been that hard, I don't think.
[20:15:51] <+AME_Estelindis> Because there's no real difference between music for NWN 1 and 2
[20:15:54] <+AME_Tybae> @Sunjammer. I'd say because original music for a mod is rare.
[20:16:04] <+AME_Tybae> And deserves to be recognized.
[20:16:04] <@AME_BGPHughes> (which makes it pretty big)
[20:16:40] <+AME_sirchet> we should look at creating a section for custom music
[20:16:49] <@AME_BGPHughes> Let's send a question at Wayne, since he's just joined us
[20:16:50] <+AME_sirchet> *whistle*
[20:16:57] <@AME_BGPHughes> Prepare for another pasting...
[20:17:04] <+Sunjammer> That's an odd rationale
[20:17:07] <+AME_Tybae> Nominees can only be original works for music.
[20:17:11] <@AME_Andarian> I'm torn on that, because I personally consider good use of music in a module to be very important
[20:17:15] <+AME_Tybae> category
[20:18:13] <+AME_sirchet> choosing the correct music is just as important as choosing the correct lighting, sets atmosphere
[20:18:28] <@AME_Andarian> Sirchet: yes, exactly.
[20:18:52] <+AME_Estelindis> I agree - some of the music choices for the NWN1 module "Bloodright: The Blood Royal" literally took my breath away
[20:18:55] <+Sunjammer> However you have no "best lighting in a module" category
[20:18:57] <+Wayne> it helps a lot that the old interplay music from Baldur's Gate to Planescape Torment is free to be used
[20:19:12] * +AME_Estelindis agrees with Wayne - that music is superb
[20:19:21] <+AME_sirchet> tis perfect
[20:19:38] <@AME_Andarian> "Best Area Design" might be a useful category to add for NWN2, since it's (I think) more crucial than in NWN1
[20:19:39] <+Wayne> But besides of that the music category of NWN2 has the same problem as most of the other custom content categories:
[20:20:45] <+Wyrin> the result sof the obsidian area design should be out soon
[20:21:16] <+Sunjammer> I'm still not seeing any real justification for music/sound and tilesets having separate categories from the other custom content
[20:22:51] <@AME_Andarian> A lot of what builders do in terms of area design in NWN2 used to be part of the tileset development process in NWN1. It may be time to rethink those categories for NWN2. It's worth thinking about.
[20:22:55] <+Sunjammer> That's probably for the best
[20:22:56] <+Sunjammer>

[20:23:48] <+AME_Estelindis> Sunjammer: personally, I would prefer perhaps one extra category for custom content